[Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

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Justified

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Justified »

I've been unable to replicate my prior data so I'm receding my statements.
The Elemental damage sets tends to hit much higher on the balance spectrum, whether that's some odd side-effect or just crazy (bad)luck it's what had me convinced earlier.
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

Justified wrote:I've been unable to replicate my prior data so I'm receding my statements.
The Elemental damage sets tends to hit much higher on the balance spectrum, whether that's some odd side-effect or just crazy (bad)luck it's what had me convinced earlier.
Mmm... yea because when checking if there is damage bonus effects you have to know the limit of your damage to see if it is actually boosted.

I did more testing to iron out some more details today which gave some interesting results...

Tools Used:
Fire Level 2 Bow
Fire Level 1 Lightning Level 1 Bow
Fire Level 1 Wooden Blade x2
Accessory with Fire Elemental Enchanted (Not the Metalware Elemental that is)

Stats:
Single wield Fire Level 1 Wooden Blade: 183 Window Damage
Dual wield Fire Level 1 Wooden Blade x2: 203 Window Damage, 214 Skill Damage
Fire Level 2 Bow: 248 Window Damage

Test 1 ~ Dual Wield Fire Level 1 Wooden Blades:
Test Target - White Spider (1/0/Ice2)
Normal Attack Max Damage from testing: 246
Effect: +2

Test Target - Brown Fox (1/0/Neutral)
Normal Attack Max Damage from testing: 203
Effect: +0

Test Target - Red Skeleton (1/1/Fire4)
Smash Attack Max Damage from testing: 822
Normal Attack Max Damage from testing: 155
Effect: -2

Conclusion:
Basically... this just shows when doing normal attack with dual wield it uses the window damage... and further shows dual wield effects on both sword is accounted separately.

Test 2 ~ Fire Level 2 Bow:
Test Target Red Skeleton (1/1/Fire4)
Normal Attack Max Damage from testing: 216
Effect: -1

Conclusion:
That's rather interesting... because we'd expect a -2 but we only get a -1... so what's going on? I believe this is because it only count the resistance 1 time even though it is more than 1, however in the case with dual wielding the 2 Fire Level 1 Blade, each blade is accounted separately, the effect is -1 + -1 which become -2, in the case for Fire Level 2 Bow, it is accounted once and therefore only -1 instead of -2. In other words every equipment get resist only once and once only.

Test 3 ~ Equip Fire Accessory with Fire Level 2 Bow:
Test Target Skeleton Wolf(1/0/Neutral)
Normal Attack Max Damage from testing: 274
Effect: +1

Conclusion:
Nope, using Fire Accessory doesn't stack your damage with non-attribute monsters.

Test 4 ~ Equip Fire Accessory with Single wield Fire Level 1 Wooden Blade:
Test Target - White Spider (1/0/Ice2)
Normal Attack Max Damage from testing: 222
Effect: +2

Conclusion:
Yep, using Fire Accessory stack your damage with attribute monsters like it is suppose to.

So just to recap a bit....
For normal monsters, damage enhance is sum of each Metalware elemental bonus minus 1 for each respective elemental.
For attribute monsters, damage enhance is sum of the strong elemental bonus minus 1 for each resist gear you have on.

So... some examples...

Example 1
Ice Accessory + Fire Level 1 Blade + Fire Level 1 Blade in Dual wield on Ice2 Monster
-1 + 1 + 1 = +1 Effect

Example 2
Ice Accessory + Level 2 Fire and Level 2 Ice Bow on Ice2 Monster
-1 + 2 -1 = +0 Effect
Justified

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Justified »

So what is the actual difference between Enchant Elements and Toolkit Elements? They look like they behave the exact same way, the only difference being <Non-Elemental Rule 1> giving off a damage boost [Total-1 Lvs].

Campfire nullification also implies that, for example, a [Lightning 2] weapon will have zero effect while wearing [9 Lightning Enchants] against an Elemental mob since you already have 100% Alignment (and by <Elemental Rule 1>, there are no mobs to give that buff anyways).

And just for clarification, <Elemental Rule 4> means that resistant mobs produce [-1 x Total Lvs] correct?
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

Justified wrote:So what is the actual difference between Enchant Elements and Toolkit Elements? They look like they behave the exact same way, the only difference being <Non-Elemental Rule 1> giving off a damage boost [Total-1 Lvs].

Campfire nullification also implies that, for example, a [Lightning 2] weapon will have zero effect while wearing [9 Lightning Enchants] against an Elemental mob since you already have 100% Alignment (and by <Elemental Rule 1>, there are no mobs to give that buff anyways).

And just for clarification, <Elemental Rule 4> means that resistant mobs produce [-1 x Total Lvs] correct?
Is actually kinda... tricky how it works... I'd say they are similar to elemental enchant but not the same. In my opinion is best to treat them as I dunno... Condensed Elemental?

We already know that for Non-Elemental Monster Metalware Element gives bonus unlike Element Enchants, specifically the effect will be sum of the elements minus the number of elements on the weapon.

For instance: A bow with Level 3 Fire and Level 3 Ice against a Non-Elemental Monster is [3-1] for fire and [3-1] for ice so overall you should get ~44% damage increase... whether this is intended behavior on Non-Elemental Monster no one knows except devCat.

That is the only difference between Metalware Elemental and Elemental Enchants on Non-Elemental Monster.

Is that the only difference from Elemental Enchants? No it is not.

When accounting for elemental monster this becomes a bit more tricky... let's use your example... [Lightning 2] weapon while wearing [9 Lightning Enchants] and for the sake of distinguishing between dual wield and single wield weapons... let's go with single wield... is easier.

What will it do on Non-Elemental Monster?
[Lightning 2 - 1] will give +1 effect which is ~11% dmg increase while the [9 Lightning Enchants] does nothing.

What will it do on a Elemental Monster? This is the tricky part, it totally depends on the Monster's Element.
To start let's do the easiest, Fire Monsters.
Nothing will happen not even 11% increase, Lightning and Fire have no relations at all so it will be ignored. Overall your damage output should be the same.

Next, let's do Lightning Monsters. For this I am going to divide the monster into Lightning2 and Below and Lightning3 and Above. And just for the example I'll use Lightning2 and Lightning9.
Lightning2 Monster:
[Lightning 2] will give -1 Effect which is ~11% Damage Decrease, [9 Lightning Enchants] gives 0 effect.
Lightning9 Monster:
[Lightning 2] will give -1 Effect which is ~11% Damage Decrease, [9 Lightning Enchants] gives -7 effect ~77% Damage Decrease.

Okay... I am sure this will have people lost but this is what happens---(and this is pretty much what rule 4 is referring to)
Metalware Elemental has priority cancelling out Monster Resistance and it cancel out what level your Metalware Elemental is at the price of -1 Effect regardless its level then subtract the rest from Elemental Enchants.
So in this case:
Lightning2 - 2 (at price of -1 Effect) leave you with 0 so overall is -1 Effect
Lightning9 - 2 (at price of -1 Effect) leave you with 7 so overall is -1 Effect + -7 Effect = -8 Effect

And that, is different from normal Elemental Enchants.

Finally let's do Ice Monsters. For this the Ice Monster have to be divided into Ice2 and Below and Ice3 and Above. And just for the example I'll use Ice2 Monster and Ice4 Monster.
Ice2 Monster:
[Lightning 2] will give +2 effect which is ~22% dmg increase, [9 Lightning Enchants] will give you +0 effect because Lightning/Ice increase at 3's divisible base on monster level and 2/3 = 0.
Ice5 Monster:
[Lightning 2] will give +0 effect because it is weaker than Ice4, [9 Lightning Enchants] will give you 4/3 = 1 which is 11% Effect.

That should look normal, but in order to demonstrate the tricky part I am gonna use Level 4 Lightning Weapon and with the same Ice2 Monster and Ice5 Monster.

Ice2 Monster:
[Lightning 4] will give +4 effect which is ~44% dmg increase, [9 Lightning Enchants] will give you +0 effect because Lightning/Ice increase at 3's divisible base on monster level and 2/3 = 0.
Ice4 Monster:
[Lightning 4] will give +4 effect which is ~44% dmg increase because it is equal to Ice4, [9 Lightning Enchants] will give you 4/3 = 1 which is 11% Effect. Overall it is 55% increase.

If you are quick... you'd see the difference. That's right you are getting 55% damage bonus on a Ice4 Monster and if you know your elements you'd know that normally you cannot exceed the limit of Monster Element Level, that is to say normally you'd only get +44% damage max on the level 4 monster but not if you have Metalware Elements (Provided you know what you are doing). And I have tested this part... Using a level 2 fire bow + fire accessory I got +33% damage bonus shooting at White Spiders.

This is just what I have gathered so far, there are more details to be ironed out. But it is not possible for me to do it.

Why? Because Metalware Elemental Bonus only go from Level 1 ~ 6 and it is divided such that Rank3 = 1~2, Rank2 = 3~4, Rank1 = 5~6. And in the cases for single handed weapons because of dual wielding, it is probably divided to Rank3 = 1, Rank2 = 2, Rank1 = 3; Rank3 = 1~2, Rank2 = 3~4, Rank1 = 5~6 is for like Bows, Lances, other 2 handed weapons. And without higher level tools is impossible to look at the behavior.

As far as I can see, Metalware Elemental is NOT Elemental Enchants but they share similar properties; they are accounted separately in calculations most likely is like:
Damage with ((9+X)/9 Metalware Bonus) with ((9+Y)/9 Elemental Enchants) with X being +- Effect from Metalware and Y being +- Effect from Enchants. But I think people can see the advantages with having Metalware Elemental Bonus from the examples and understand somewhat how they work. But yea... they are tricky.
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