[Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

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Soluna

[Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

Metalware Elemental Level Effect Testing Data (Source) ---
120~120 Damage on Brown Fox (1/0/Neutral) / White Spider (1/0/Ice 2) / Metal Skeleton (1/0/Lightning 4)

Damage Result ---
Ice Level 2: 132 / 105 / 145
Fire Level 1: 119 /132 / 119
Fire Level 1 + Ice Level 1: 119 / 119 / 132
Lightning Level 2: 132 / 145 / 105

Damage Calculations ---
Formula: {(dmg - def) * 1-pro} * (9+Effect Level)/9
(120-1)*8/9=105 --> -1 effect
(120-1)*9/9=119 --> +0 effect
(120-1)*10/9=132 --> +1 effect
(120-1)*11/9=145 --> +2 effect

Analyze/Result---
Ice Level 2: +1 / -1 / +2:
Fire Level 1: +0 / +1 / +0
Fire Level 1 + Ice Level 1: +0 / +0 / +1
Lightning Level 2: +1 / +2 / -1

Effect State:
None: No effects
0: Zero effects
+: Positive effects
-: Negative effects
*None and 0 is different states, but similar result. Consider None as you being Neutral, 0 Being you are Attributed with level 0

Neutral elemental monsters:
Rule 1
If Monster Is Neutral
Then
Level Effect on the monsters is highest level -1.
~Derived from against Brown Fox.~

Elemental monsters:
Rule 1
If Monster Is Elemental and Weak Against Your Attribute
Then
Level Effect on the monsters is the highest level effect.
~Derived from Lightning level 2 effect on White Spider and Fire Level 1 effect on White Spider.~

Rule 2
If Monster Is Neutral Against Your Attribute
Then
Ignore
~Derived from Fire Level 1 on Metal Skeleton.~

Rule 3
If Monster Elemental Is Resistant to Your Attribute and Effect is None
Then
Level Effect changed to 0
~Derived from Ice Level 2 on White Spider.~

Rule 4
If Monster Elemental Is Resistant to Your Attribute and Effect greater than or equal to 0
Then
Level Effect -1
~Derived from Fire Level 1 + Ice Level 1 on White Spider.~

Overall Elemental effects:
Ice --> Strong against Fire / Lower Lightning and Weak against Ice
Fire --> Strong against Ice and Weak against Fire and Neutral against Lightning
Lightning --> Strong against Lower Ice and Weak against Lightning and Neutral against Fire

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Camp Fire + Metalware Elemental Level Effect Testing Data---
120~120 Damage on Brown Fox (1/0/Neutral) / White Spider (1/0/Ice 2) / Metal Skeleton (1/0/Lightning 4) / Fire Skeleton (1/1/Fire 4)

Damage Result ---
Camp + Ice Level 2: 178 / 218 /178 / 97
Camp + Fire Level 1: 178 / 218 / 178 / 97
Camp + Fire Level 1 + Ice Level 1: 178 / 218 / 178 / 97

Damage Calculations ---
Formula: {(dmg - def) * 1-pro} * (9+Effect Level)/9 * 1.5
{(120-1)*0.99}*5/9*1.5=97
{(120-1)*1.00}*9/9*1.5=178
{(120-1)*1.00}*11/9*1.5=218

Analyze/Result---
Camp fire overwrites Metalware Elemental Level Effect to Normal Elemental Effect with Full(?) Fire Attribute.

*Using Metalware Elemental is similar to Normal Elemental in that you receive more damage from monsters is strong against your attribute.
Justified

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Justified »

You're using only data from foreign servers, correct?
I did some testing on NA servers with Lv1 Elemental Toolkits.

Test 1 : Lv1 Ice ==vs== No Toolkit (Single-Wield)
Test 2 : Lv1 Lit ==vs== No Toolkit (Single-Wield)
Test 3 : Lv1 Ice + No Toolkit ==vs== No Toolkit + No Toolkit (Dual-Wield)
Test 4 : Lv1 Lit + No Toolkit ==vs== No Toolkit + No Toolkit (Dual-Wield)

All four tests used the same Max Damage between sets, but resulted in consistently higher Smash Critical Damage on the Toolkit sets (~300-800 more).
Tested on Lion/Lioness, Brown Mongoose, and Raccoon.
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

Justified wrote:You're using only data from foreign servers, correct?
I did some testing on NA servers with Lv1 Elemental Toolkits.

Test 1 : Lv1 Ice ==vs== No Toolkit (Single-Wield)
Test 2 : Lv1 Lit ==vs== No Toolkit (Single-Wield)
Test 3 : Lv1 Ice + No Toolkit ==vs== No Toolkit + No Toolkit (Dual-Wield)
Test 4 : Lv1 Lit + No Toolkit ==vs== No Toolkit + No Toolkit (Dual-Wield)

All four tests used the same Max Damage between sets, but resulted in consistently higher Smash Critical Damage on the Toolkit sets (~300-800 more).
Tested on Lion/Lioness, Brown Mongoose, and Raccoon.
That's not conclusive testing though...

It should be something like this:

First we need the tools for testing ---
Wooden Blade 1
Image

Wooden Blade 2
Image

Wooden Blade 3
Image

Wooden Blade 4
Image

Next we are gonna need the stats ---
Single Wield
Image

Dual Wield
Image

Then the difficult part, to calculate the damage... for dual wield at least...
So... let's start with single wield...

Normal Single 183 Max Damage:
Smash = 183 * 5 = 915
Critical Smash = 915 * 2.5 = 2287.5 ---> 2287 after rounding with Floor

Normal Dual Wield 203 Max Damage:
Okay, so... dual wield is kinda funny in calculating... with all the mastery, stat, etc and what not... because the window doesn't exactly show you the correct output value.
A general way to do is to just add your 2nd hand weapon value to the value that's shown in the window and it should give you the correct value.

With that said we are adding 11 to 203 to get 214 the value used to calculate.

Smash = 214 * 5 = 1070
Critical Smash = 1070 * 2.5 = 2675

Okay, now the gruesome part... the actual testing.
In order to show Elemental Level 1 having effect on the neutral monsters, we need to out perform the expected value we just calculated.

So, pick something easy test target to see how it goes. In my case, I chose the Brown Foxes and the result:
Dual wield critical with Lightning + Fire
Image

Dual wield with Lightning + Fire
Image

Single wield with Lightning
Image

Single wield critical with Lightning
Image

Notice how every value is exactly 1 less than the expected value? That's the enemy defense kicking in, and when the numbers match you know you done your calculations right.

So, I was not able to out perform the expected value, therefore... no the elemental level have no effects at all whether it be critical hits or not.
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

I am also gonna throw this here from that testing run I did.

I also did a little extensive random test with Lightning Level 1 Wooden Blade on White Spider: it did not get the effect increase.

This is probably something to follows the Normal Elemental Rule in that your Lightning Level needs to be equal or greater than that of the Ice Level of the target for the effect to kick in.
So, in the case White Spider having level 2 Ice attribute, Lightning Level Metalware effect will no kick in.
Justified

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Justified »

I was mostly referring to this part...
Soluna wrote:Neutral elemental monsters:
Rule 1
If Monster Is Neutral
Then
Level Effect on the monsters is highest level -1.
~Derived from against Brown Fox.~
My tests were done with true identical Max Damage (ie, Dual-Wield tests were done with Hooked Cutlasses I had laying around).
And while I didn't calculate for specific maximal damages there shouldn't have been such a large gap between weapons, equivalent to around 60 Max Damage (coincidentally ~10%?).

I can grab some numbers later if needed.
radionoise

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by radionoise »

The elemental level also seems to be individual per weapon in dual-wield. As in, having two Lightning 1 wooden swords will not give you the same effect as having a single Lightning 2 wooden sword.

From what I've been told, the recent KR patch makes it so that elemental effects don't stack anymore... so if you have a bow with both Fire and Lightning at level 2, it will no longer give twice the effect on neutral mobs. I assume the same will apply to dual wield? (i.e. wielding one sword with Elem1 Lv2 and a second one with Elem2 Lv 2).
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

radionoise wrote:The elemental level also seems to be individual per weapon in dual-wield. As in, having two Lightning 1 wooden swords will not give you the same effect as having a single Lightning 2 wooden sword.
That would seem to be the case, at least for no attribute monsters with the reason being using Fire Level 1 + Lightning Level 1 on Brown Fox doesn't add damage effect (From my test run).
However I can't say that is the case for attribute monsters yet. When tested on White Spider, there's damage effect increase, but only the Fire Level 1 was applied. For Lightning Level to have effects, the Level of Lightning must be higher than that of the Target's Ice Level, White Spider has Level 2 Ice Attribute, so I dunno what will happen is the blade is Lightning Level 2.
radionoise wrote: From what I've been told, the recent KR patch makes it so that elemental effects don't stack anymore... so if you have a bow with both Fire and Lightning at level 2, it will no longer give twice the effect on neutral mobs. I assume the same will apply to dual wield? (i.e. wielding one sword with Elem1 Lv2 and a second one with Elem2 Lv 2).
I can't say if it even stacks now either with the tools I have currently. So I will leave that open for now.

This would be more clear when I can test more.
Justified wrote: My tests were done with true identical Max Damage (ie, Dual-Wield tests were done with Hooked Cutlasses I had laying around).
And while I didn't calculate for specific maximal damages there shouldn't have been such a large gap between weapons, equivalent to around 60 Max Damage (coincidentally ~10%?).

I can grab some numbers later if needed.
Some numbers would be nice, because I can't see what you are testing with and unless there's a break from the actual output expected it doesn't show there's any effect.
radionoise

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by radionoise »

Soluna wrote:I can't say if it even stacks now either with the tools I have currently. So I will leave that open for now.
I believe it currently does stack unless I'm misunderstanding this image from JP.

Image
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

Just a follow up on multiple element dual wield...

This time using 2 Fire Level 1 Blades.
Image

Image

Calculating Damage:
203+(11 damage from second wooden blade) = 214
Formula --- 214 * 5 * (11/9) = 1307.77778 ---> 1307 after rounding with Floor
[11/9 because two Level 1 Fire Effect being +2, normally 9/9]

Testing result.
Image
1307 - 1 def = 1306 damage. Confirm Level effect added from both blade.

However!
When I tested with two Level 1 Lightning Blade there was +0 effect. So... what's going on...? Well... is simple...
What the system does is account 1 Blade as 1 weapon and calculate that bonus then added with the second weapon's bonus.
In the case for dual wield lightning level 1, both being lower than White Spider's level 2 Ice gave +0 and +0 respectively.
Whereas dual wielding fire level 1, both being strong against White Spider's level 2 Ice gave + 1 and +1 which produced the +2 effect respectively.

So overall... I think... I can generalize the rules to this now:

For Non-attribute monster ---
Sum of all the level of the element - 1 respectively for each element.

Example 1 ~ Level 1 Fire Blade dual wield Level 1 Lightning Blade:
Level 1 Fire -1 give +0 Effect
Level 1 Lightning -1 give +0 Effect
Overall gave +0 +0 = +0 Effect as Result.

Example 2 ~ Dual wield two Level 2 Fire Blade:
Level 2 Fire -1 give +1 Effect
Level 2 Fire -1 give +1 Effect
Overall gave +1 +1 = +2 Effect as Result.

Example 3 ~ Bow with Level 2 Lighting and Level 2 Fire
Level 2 Lightning -1 give +1 Effect
Level 2 Fire -1 give +1 Effect
Overall gave +1 +1 = +2 Effect as Result.

Example 4 ~ Bow with Level 1 Lighting and Level 1 Fire
Level 1 Lightning -1 give +0 Effect
Level 1 Fire -1 give +0 Effect
Overall gave +0 +0 = +0 Effect as Result.

For Attribute Monsters---
Only account elements that is strong against the opposing element:
Ice -> Fire and Lightning (if target attribute is same or weaker)
Fire -> Ice
Lightning -> Ice (if target attribute is same or weaker)

If element is resisted by opposing element give -1 effect:
Ice -> Resist By Ice
Fire -> Resist By Fire
Lightning -> Resist By Lightning

Example 1 ~ Level 1 Fire Blade dual wield Level 1 Lightning Blade on White Spider (Lv2 Ice):
Level 1 Fire give +1 Effect
Level 1 Lightning give No Effect
Overall gave +1 +0 = +1 Effect as Result.

Example 2 ~ Dual wield two Level 2 Fire Blade on White Spider (Lv2 Ice):
Level 2 Fire give +2 Effect
Level 2 Fire give +2 Effect
Overall gave +2 +2 = +4 Effect as Result.

Example 3 ~ Bow with Level 1 Lighting and Level 1 Fire on White Spider (Lv2 Ice):
Level 2 Lightning give No Effect
Level 2 Fire give +1 Effect
Overall gave +0 +1 = +1 Effect as Result.

And that, is probably how the system calculate the bonus effect.

Obviously it would be nice to test with some tools with more than +1 Level or +2 Level effects, but I am not gonna try my luck with common tool kits to get those effects... but yea that should be it... on this matter.

*Other random test with Level 1 Fire + Level 1 Lightning Bow.
Image

Test target on Wisp (Lightning Attribute), expected output:
(255-7) * (0.70) * (8/9) = 154.311111 ---> 154 with plus minus 1 offset error margin.
[8/9 is because 1 level lightning is being resisted by Wisp, -7 is the def of Wisp, *0.70 is because Wisp have 30 protection. Data From Japan Wiki]

Test result:
Image
Soluna

Re: [Info] Analyzing Metalware Elemental.

Post by Soluna »

radionoise wrote: I believe it currently does stack unless I'm misunderstanding this image from JP.
Read my new tests Dx I think it should be a lot more clear on how this system works.
radionoise wrote:The elemental level also seems to be individual per weapon in dual-wield. As in, having two Lightning 1 wooden swords will not give you the same effect as having a single Lightning 2 wooden sword.
In the case dual wielding two lightning level 1 blade vs dual wielding one lightning level 2 blade and one normal blade on White Spider you are right the effect is not the same.
However, in the case dual wielding two fire level 1 blade vs dual wielding one fire level 2 blade and one normal blade on White Spider you will get the same effects.
So for Dual wield, it depends on what you are holding... and your target somewhat to see what the effects would be.

But yea, unless Justified's test with level 1 tools differs... that's pretty much how the system works... I think.
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