[Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

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Soluna
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[Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Soluna » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:02 am

Previously In http://mabidata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1155

Was an attempt at calculating elemental reforge dmg. It was not conclusive except for the calculation on neutral enemies.

Ran more tests this time with the help from player wearing elemental items from 1~9 to nail down the damage bonuses. And so... the end result is again... yea they are not normal elemental enchants.

Here's what's Elemental reforge is different:
1. They can cancel out non-elemental target's status.
2. They can cancel out non effective elemental target's status.
3. They increase dmg% at different increment level depending on target.
4. They cost 1 slot of element but provide bonus for more than 1 but when resisted they only penalize you for 1 slot.

Before I explain those point, let's get the basic elemental effects down first:
Fire strong against Ice, ~11% increase for each, no effect on Lightning. Weak against Fire.
Ice strong against Fire, ~11% increase for each, good against Lightning , ~11% increase for every 3 Lightning your target has. Weak against Ice.
Lightning, no effect on Fire, good against Ice, ~11% increase for every 3 Ice your target has. Weak against Lightning.

Example:
You have 9 fire, your Target has 5 ice, you gain 55% dmg
You have 9 Lightning, your Target has 8 Fire, you gain 0% dmg
You have 5 Lightning, your Target has 2 Ice, you gain 0% dmg
You have 1 Lightning, your Target has 9 Ice, you gain 33% dmg
You have 9 Lightning, your Target has 9 Ice, you gain 33% dmg
You have 9 Fire, your Target has 9 Fire, you lose 99% dmg

Now let's explain the elemental reforge:
Point 1: They can cancel out non-elemental target's status. [When to use this rule: When target is no-elemental]
This means if an enemy is neutral element, meaning no element. Elemental reforge can cancel that and make them against particular element. This calculation was from the previous thread's conclusive testing. Meaning on neutral monster you get (Level -1)*11% dmg for each elemental reforge you have.
i.e.
A Level 4 Fire Bow would give you 33% increase on non-elemental monster, A Level 2 Ice and Level 2 Lightning bow will give you 22% increase on non-elemental.

Point 2: They can cancel out non-effective elemental target's status. [When to use this rule: When you have same element as target or when the element you are deal are Fire and Lightning]
This means even if you elemental reforge have no effect or WEAK against the target monster you can still cancel it out like point 1 and make them weak against particular element. The formula is (Level - Enemy Elemental Slots - 1)*11% dmg for each elemental reforge you have.
i.e.
A level 4 Fire Bow would give you 11% increase on Fire 2 Monsters this is because Fire 4 cancel out Fire 2 with 2 leftover and the target is now a non-elemental and we can apply Point 1 such that 2 - 1 = 1.

Point 3: They increase dmg% at different increment level depending on target at higher level. [When to use this rule: Always]
For Level 1 elemental reforge, they follow the rule of normal elemental rule previously stated, but when they are level 2 or more they follow different rules:
For Fire and Ice, they start Reforge Level*11% and increase at 11% until they reach (Reforge Level + Reforge Level -1)*11%.
For Lightning they increase at (Target/3+(Reforge Level-1)*11%)
i.e.
Fire Level 2 bow on Ice1~9 Enemy:
+ 22% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33%

Fire Level 4 bow on Ice1~9 Enemy:
+ 44% / + 55% / + 66% / + 77% / + 77% / + 77% / + 77% / + 77% / + 77%

Lightning Level 2 bow on Ice1~9
+ 11% / + 11% / + 22% / + 22% / + 22% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 44%

Point 4: They cost 1 slot of element but provide bonus for more than 1 but when resisted they only penalize you for 1 slot. [When to use this rule: when you have more elemental than target]
With all the previous points and now this final point we can actually calculate the dmg bonus now:

Example A - Level 4 Lightning Bow on Ice 9 Enemy
Okay so Lightning and Ice rule is increase 11% every 3 Ice target has so we get 33% bonus this is basic elemental rule, we skip Point 1 because target has elemental, skip Point 2 because it is ice and lightning. We need to do Point 3 though because it is Level 4 so we get 4 - 1 = 3, another 33% gain. We are gonna pass up on Point 4 because we only have 1 slot that is the Level 4 Lightning bow, so we get 66% damage bonus in the end.

Example B - Level 2 Fire and Level 2 Lightning Bow on Ice 9 Enemy
Let's start with Fire, skip Point 1 and 2. For point 3 we get 2 + 1, a 33% bonus.
For Lightning, skip Point 1 and 2. For point 3 we get (9/3 + (2-1))*11% = 44% bonus
We used 2 slots and enemy has 9 so we skip Point 4 and end up with 77% dmg bonus.

Example C - Level 2 Fire and Level 2 Lightning Bow with 9 Fire Elemental enchanted on Ice 9 Enemy
Let's start with Fire, skip Point 1 and 2. For point 3 we get 2 + 1, a 33% bonus.
For Lightning, skip Point 1 and 2. For point 3 we get (9/3 + (2-1))*11% = 44% bonus
We gain 99% from 9 Fire elemental
We do Point 4 because we used 11 slot but enemy only have 9
elemental reforge takes priority base on Point 4, so 7 slot left over for the 9 Fire Elemental and we end up getting 77% bonus
33% + 44% + 77% = 154% damage bonus as result.

And that's how you calculated damage with elemental reforge.
*Bonus is applied after def/pro reduction.
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Sky » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:23 am

*phew*
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Yoorah » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:19 pm

Awesome guide, great job. I had no idea you'd get it done this fast, too. Gotta keep your rep as a bot, I guess!
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Soluna » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:32 pm

Yoorah wrote:Awesome guide, great job. I had no idea you'd get it done this fast, too. Gotta keep your rep as a bot, I guess!

I did lose my sleep yesterday because of this <_<...
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Re: [Guide] Metalware Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Sky » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:03 pm

Soluna wrote:
Yoorah wrote:Awesome guide, great job. I had no idea you'd get it done this fast, too. Gotta keep your rep as a bot, I guess!

I did lose my sleep yesterday because of this <_<...

still haven't slept yet T T
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Soluna » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:47 pm

Sky wrote: still haven't slept yet T T

I think I just shortened my life by another 3 year...
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Sky » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:08 pm

What happens in Point 3 if the enemy's the same elemental as your weapon's?
Say I have Ice level 6 reforge.

I imagine it goes like this:
Ice Level 6 weapon on Fire 1~9 Enemy
+ 66% / + 77% / + 88% / + 99% / + 110% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121%

and
Ice Level 6 weapon on Lightning 1~9 Enemy
+ 11% / + 11% / + 22% / + 22% / + 22% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 44%

but what about
Ice Level 6 weapon on Ice 1~9 Enemy?
+ 66% / + 77% / + 88% / + 99% / + 110% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121% as well like fire?

Basically what I'm just worried about is the WORST case - will my damage go down if I have elemental reforge or such. Also, say what if you have also 7 other equipment with ice elemental?
Oh this brings me up to another question, does your elemental equips just matter in Point 4? It seems like Point 1~3 only care about reforge level and not your other equipment.
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Soluna » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:59 pm

Sky wrote:What happens in Point 3 if the enemy's the same elemental as your weapon's?
Say I have Ice level 6 reforge.

I imagine it goes like this:
Ice Level 6 weapon on Fire 1~9 Enemy
+ 66% / + 77% / + 88% / + 99% / + 110% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121%

Yes

Sky wrote:Ice Level 6 weapon on Lightning 1~9 Enemy
+ 11% / + 11% / + 22% / + 22% / + 22% / + 33% / + 33% / + 33% / + 44%

Wrong
+ 55% / + 55% / + 66% / + 66% / + 66% / + 77% / + 77% / + 77% / + 88%

Sky wrote:but what about
Ice Level 6 weapon on Ice 1~9 Enemy?
+ 66% / + 77% / + 88% / + 99% / + 110% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121% / + 121% as well like fire?

Wrong
+ 44% / + 33% / + 22% / + 11% / + 0 % / - 11% / - 22% / - 33% / -44%

Sky wrote:Basically what I'm just worried about is the WORST case - will my damage go down if I have elemental reforge or such.

Yes

Sky wrote:Also, say what if you have also 7 other equipment with ice elemental?

Elemental reforge count as 1 slot but effect depend on level and has priority over normal elemental.
Therefore assuming level 6 reforge, then +6/+7/+8/+9/+10/+11/+12/+13/+14. If you dual wield level 3 to get "level 6" it will be +5~+13 instead.

Sky wrote:Oh this brings me up to another question, does your elemental equips just matter in Point 4? It seems like Point 1~3 only care about reforge level and not your other equipment.

... read again.
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Sky » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:22 pm

So now reevaluating with say

Ice 6 weapon and 7 other ice elemental equipment
Q1: How many slots do we have right now for Point 4? I think 8?
Q2: For Point 3, calculation based on weapon AND equipment or just weapon? I wasn't sure about the +6~14 where it's going to be applied - just for point 1~2 and/or point 3?

Oh yeah, how do you even reach +14 actually if the weapon is 2 handed... (bow/2hsword)... unless you're a giant...

versus an Ice 9 monster:
Point 1~2 boost: (13 - 9 - 1) * 11 = 33% increase
Point 3 boost: uhhh [s]33% increase or[/s] 44% decrease ?
Point 4 boost: skip since 8 < 9
Total = [s]+66% or[/s] -11% ?

But if it's against Ice 8 monster:
Point 1~2 boost: (13 - 8 - 1) * 11 = 44% increase
Point 3 boost: uhhh [s]44% increase or[/s] 33% decrease ?
Point 4 boost: skip since 8 = 8
Total = [s]+88% or[/s] +11% ?

Ice 7 monster
Point 1~2 boost: (13 - 7 - 1) * 11 = 55% increase
Point 3 boost: uhhh [s]55% increase or[/s] 22% decrease ?
Point 4 boost: uhhh we do it here since 8 > 7... we have 7 slot leftover but since enemy is ice 7, there's 0% effect
Total = [s](55+55+0) = +110% or[/s] (55-22+0) = +33% ?

Ice 6 monster
Point 1~2 boost: (13 - 6 - 1) * 11 = 66% increase
Point 3 boost: uhhh [s]66% increase or[/s] 11% decrease?
Point 4 boost: uhhh 8 > 6 so do it... 7 slot leftover but since enemy is ice 6, we get +11% increase ?
Total = [s](66+66+11) = +143% or[/s] (66-11+11) = +66%

Neutral monster
Point 1 boost: (13 - 1) * 11 = 132% increase
Point 2 skip
Point 3 boost: uhhh... 88% increase?
Point 4 boost: 77% increase?
Total lolwhat

I've been reading this quite a number of time already (and even spent my entire class time just in this page alone) and I suppose I'm just having a hard time comprehending it lol.

damn... revised this post like 20 times @_@.
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Re: [Guide] Reforge Elemental Damage Calculation

Postby Soluna » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:59 pm

You make it more complicated than it needs to be. 7 Ice 6 Reforged Ice (Non-Dual wield), 8 Slot total 7 being equipment 1 being reforge

9 Ice Enemy will activate all you slots so you will get -7 from ice7 -1 from reforge ice = -8
then you have elemental reforge property cancel in point 2 which give +4 from level 6 (-1 to cancel 1 ice element on the monster, then -1 to cancel the -1 from ice reforge and -1)
overall you get -8 +4 = -44% 8 ice monster is -7+4 = -33%, 7 is -22% and so on.

Your main question was will your dmg be reduced, the answer is yes, but less than that of the normal element. The only reason you would enchant equipment is to increase dmg on elemental monsters to say +14 (8 slot +1 level 6 reforge) which is equivalent at 88+66 = roughly 254% dmg increase. But at the same time you weaken yourself to receive more dmg from opposite element monsters and do less dmg to same element monster.
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