[G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Mabinogi updates that have been released from testing are posted here!
Soluna

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Soluna »

Araria wrote:
Soluna wrote: Is a mastery skill... you learn it through doing the task like all the other mastery skill. Egg mastery -> pick an egg, Sword mastery -> equip sword, Commerce mastery -> do commerce.
Bolt Mastery.
That is the same. Bolt mastery -> get Bolt skills for title then talk to Lassar.

All mastery skills require you to do/get the task with the respective skill/equipment to learn it.
Sky wrote: I think you worry too much.
I agree, but this how dependent people have become without actually interacting and experiencing with the games' elements now.
How to get a skill? there's a unlearned skill tab now that tells you how to get certain skills.

How to cook a dish? If the jerks of your server would stop putting in useless comments and put in the actual correct ratio of mix in the collection journal MAYBE the beginners wouldn't have to search for the recipes off the game.

Maybe people start doing the new beginner quests they would learn much more on their own than read some outdated info someone forgot to update.

Contents change all the time, try it out yourself for your own sake not because someone or some site says something is like that. Knowing or learning something is important, but obtaining that through your own experience is much more rewarding than reading some text.

Question, but also seek the answers yourself, there won't always be someone handing an answer on the silver plate for you whether in game or life.
Lilia

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Lilia »

Soluna wrote: That is the same. Bolt mastery -> get Bolt skills for title then talk to Lassar.

All mastery skills require you to do/get the task with the respective skill/equipment to learn it.
The only one doesn't fall in that category is Production Mastery fufufu... but that's basic skill from beginner quests so you'd get it as beginner anyway.
Sky

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Sky »

Soluna wrote:
Sky wrote: I think you worry too much.
I agree, but this how dependent people have become without actually interacting and experiencing with the games' elements now.
How to get a skill? there's a unlearned skill tab now that tells you how to get certain skills.

How to cook a dish? If the jerks of your server would stop putting in useless comments and put in the actual correct ratio of mix in the collection journal MAYBE the beginners wouldn't have to search for the recipes off the game.

Maybe people start doing the new beginner quests they would learn much more on their own than read some outdated info someone forgot to update.

Contents change all the time, try it out yourself for your own sake not because someone or some site says something is like that. Knowing or learning something is important, but obtaining that through your own experience is much more rewarding than reading some text.

Question, but also seek the answers yourself, there won't always be someone handing an answer on the silver plate for you whether in game or life.
Yoooooo :(

> How to cook a dish? If the jerks of your server would stop putting in useless comments and the actual correct ratio of mix in the collection journal MAYBE the beginners wouldn't have to search for the recipes off the game.

A little guilty of charge :(. I did say it to someone who was asking what to do to get rank 2 -> rank 1 composing.

Anyways, I know your answers are pretty much spot on and you do have a point. But I think it's also part of the game's fault. You even said it yourself that Mabi has a bad UI - like where you questioned why do you have to look for a site to see how much AP you have to spend on a skill.

Yeah true, Mabinogi has been changing. I'm sure the "real ways" of finding these "solutions" actually underlie a lot on reading those random books in games and talking and interacting to NPC and stuff. But they need to find a right balance between telling the players to "just do this" and not explain much detail versus "here's how to get it"...

I think the devs rely too much that people will actually figure out every single bit of stuff and read every pieces.

Or unless they are hoping for people to actually look to the forums and post and interact with people to search for answer. If this is the case, then they've done it well; except the fact of the existence of wiki kinda made it bad and people being a little too reliant on this outside information.

Point I'm getting at is - I've actually forgotten while typing all this. I do have bad short term memory =''=;; Maybe I'll just QFT you.
Soluna

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Soluna »

Lilia wrote: The only one doesn't fall in that category is Production Mastery fufufu... but that's basic skill from beginner quests so you'd get it as beginner anyway.
Quit making my life difficult, thank you =3=.
Sky wrote:You even said it yourself that Mabi has a bad UI - like where you questioned why do you have to look for a site to see how much AP you have to spend on a skill.
Yea, they are poor, but that was also a poor example I used lol...
Sky wrote:I'm sure the "real ways" of finding these "solutions" actually underlie a lot on reading those random books in games and talking and interacting to NPC and stuff. But they need to find a right balance between telling the players to "just do this" and not explain much detail versus "here's how to get it"...
Actually, in terms of skills... they aren't difficult to figure it out now compare to before with the unlearned skill tab. They added that because they know it can be hard to figure out how to get a skill. In terms of the random books you can read they really just provide trivia things... I mean if you actually read the books you'd know about Nuadha's existence since G1. And the new books like the Unknown Song I and II also give interesting context. But are those really that important? Probably not, but it adds details. And most the time they say how to get it in the patch notes(KR).

I am not saying don't ask questions etc... but there is a difference between asking: "how do I get rank 2 composing to rank 1?" versus the question" how do I get Unknown Song II?"

I am not a wiki, I don't want to be a wiki, especially filling in all the tiny details for things that is not even out in NA servers or that can be changed easily. There's a reason I don't list everything out, because people should experience things on their own. And it should be Nexon's task to list the patch note changes then just throwing things at players.

If today a newbie ask you how to get Water Cannon skill what would you say? Use the wiki and then it say go grab the water crystals, so the newbie goes and buys the water crystal. Well... he could have done the "Fighting Lesson" beginner quest and get Windmill, Assault Slash, Icebolt, Firebolt, Lightning Bolt, Water Cannon, Flameburst etc all to rank F without spending a single AP. Yes, pretty lame example... but my point is don't let a guide or someone else determine how you want to play, experience things yourself. When you do run into TROUBLES, then you ask for help.

Today the wiki tells you you get 1 melee max damage is gained from every 2.5 str do you question that? Have you ever done the calculations yourself? How many people doesn't know that the base 10str doesn't account for dmg? I said the puppet gains damage from every 4.5 str and 3.5 dex, why shouldn't you doubt that? Especially there are other sources saying otherwise. I shown the calculations but they weren't exact, there's a margin of error, maybe I am wrong somewhere? Use sources as a way to find answers, but don't just accept them as answers all the time, decide for yourself your own answers.

And yes, 2.5 Str do give 1 max melee damage in case if you started doubting.
shadofrak

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by shadofrak »

Soluna wrote:Well... he could have done the "Fighting Lesson" beginner quest and get Windmill, Assault Slash, Icebolt, Firebolt, Lightning Bolt, Water Cannon, Flameburst etc all to rank F without spending a single AP.
WAT
I wants my APs back, the only real downside to adding beginner benefits is sometimes the older players get jealous

Anyway, I guess I was always okay with the wiki mentality - it's like buying a strategy guide. If you don't want any help, you won't ask for it. But I also think because this is an MMO, there's the goal to catch up to higher-level players and show off items/skills. Instead of exploring the game, you may decide to look up what you need so you can be more like that cool guy with the demigod skills and the Vintage Goggle Cap.
Sky

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Sky »

shadofrak wrote:
Soluna wrote:Well... he could have done the "Fighting Lesson" beginner quest and get Windmill, Assault Slash, Icebolt, Firebolt, Lightning Bolt, Water Cannon, Flameburst etc all to rank F without spending a single AP.
WAT
I wants my APs back, the only real downside to adding beginner benefits is sometimes the older players get jealous

Anyway, I guess I was always okay with the wiki mentality - it's like buying a strategy guide. If you don't want any help, you won't ask for it. But I also think because this is an MMO, there's the goal to catch up to higher-level players and show off items/skills. Instead of exploring the game, you may decide to look up what you need so you can be more like that cool guy with the demigod skills and the Vintage Goggle Cap.
I think strategy guide in single player is much more different than MMO - at least in general. MMO tend to take up more time and there are usually point of no returns like where to spend stat points or skill points. Although it doesn't apply much in Mabi, since we get rebirth, but I think there's still a bit of how to spend AP wisely part on it.

Strategy guide for single player games though... Shame. >:I
DKnightOdin

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by DKnightOdin »

Soluna wrote:I am not a wiki, I don't want to be a wiki, especially filling in all the tiny details for things that is not even out in NA servers or that can be changed easily. There's a reason I don't list everything out, because people should experience things on their own. And it should be Nexon's task to list the patch note changes then just throwing things at players.

Today the wiki tells you you get 1 melee max damage is gained from every 2.5 str do you question that? Have you ever done the calculations yourself? How many people doesn't know that the base 10str doesn't account for dmg? I said the puppet gains damage from every 4.5 str and 3.5 dex, why shouldn't you doubt that? Especially there are other sources saying otherwise. I shown the calculations but they weren't exact, there's a margin of error, maybe I am wrong somewhere? Use sources as a way to find answers, but don't just accept them as answers all the time, decide for yourself your own answers.

And yes, 2.5 Str do give 1 max melee damage in case if you started doubting.
Why should it really matter though? One doesn't really need to know MORE than what's required; anything else is just bonus. If someone were to test whether or not the calculations or whatever the wiki says is truth or not, one of two things will happen. Either they find out it's wrong, in which now they have proper data (and if they want edit the data in the wiki to the correct info) or two, they find the data is true and nothing really changes. You say there are some things people need to experience themselves, but imo, that's something the individual needs to choose for themselves. It's a game and we're all here to enjoy it (or at least try to) and some people don't find it enjoyable to rummage through countless of data to find the answers. Granted, I understand what you're saying and for the most part agree with you.
Soluna wrote:If today a newbie ask you how to get Water Cannon skill what would you say? Use the wiki and then it say go grab the water crystals, so the newbie goes and buys the water crystal. Well... he could have done the "Fighting Lesson" beginner quest and get Windmill, Assault Slash, Icebolt, Firebolt, Lightning Bolt, Water Cannon, Flameburst etc all to rank F without spending a single AP.

I actually found this out by luck. I didn't even plan on getting any alchemy skills. :lol:
Soluna

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Soluna »

DKnightOdin wrote:Why should it really matter though?
Of course it matters.

You are right, it will be fixed when people find it to be wrong. However, the question is: who is going to find it to be wrong when you accept it to be right without questioning it? Because that is certainly the attitude of the players these days. Someone ask a question, "Use the wiki". My point was not to do everything yourself or question everything, do things yourself and compare with the others. I am also not saying you can't just use it and accept everything to be true, you certainly can. I am simply saying I don't think that's not what people should do. "Use the wiki", but also verify it.
DKnightOdin wrote: I actually found this out by luck. I didn't even plan on getting any alchemy skills. :lol:
You can find things you didn't know before on your own without relying on someone or something. And I bet you most the time you'd say to yourself "Oh, Cool".
Kuraulga

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by Kuraulga »

So, do the talents replace destinies or not?
nandattebayo

Re: [G17S1] The Classic: Grandmaster

Post by nandattebayo »

Kuraulga wrote:So, do the talents replace destinies or not?
Talent System = Revamped Destiny System.

So, yes.
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