[G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

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Soluna

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by Soluna »

Personally, I too, think the Demon Weapons have weird positioning in the choices of weaponry while the Fomor Weapons (Referring to the Venom Sword etc...) are certain on the high end of the list of weaponry being useful for most players.

Demon weapons at its best are high-end smith-ed weapons that cannot be upgraded through S/R, and it certainly will never be as powerful as the R weapons no matter what. More or less it should be said that R upgrades itself is probably the main factor in a weapon's upgrade-ability now. That is not to throw out that Demon weapons will not have special Demon Upgrade Stone to upgrade them in a different way.

I don't believe there's anything wrong in making hard to obtain item easier to obtain. There's nothing wrong with everyone able to get a highlander long bow or claymore. These weapons are not coveted because they are rare, they are coveted because they are the best. No one cared about battle sword before, people used Broad Swords, Gladius etc... But when Artisan and S/R Upgrade came it suddenly became popular. It is the nature of a game that players will work toward the best item/skill, and there is no reason why making things easier will necessarily take the fun away. Chances are, when newer bow/sword/axe comes out that is stronger than the current ones they will become not coveted as well.

There's nothing wrong with newer players (they exist...I think...) being able to get demon weapons and have a semi-decent output damage, its what they are designed for; for player who can't compete in the horrendous market when starting out. That's not to say getting the demon weapons will be easier as pie.

There's nothing wrong in allowing everyone have a powerful weapon (points at Brionac), obtaining a highlander long bow now doesn't make it less of a highlander long bow compare to the ones obtained later. A bow is a bow, the only difference is the efforts in obtaining, and it is always easier because like life the game will progress and move on. Don't build on one's on achievements on others' failures. You should be glad people can have easier lives then the hell you went through, O Hell...
Lyrrad

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by Lyrrad »

That's to say if a low-level player could get the Ducats needed to buy Highlander equipment. Not that it's hard or anything, but it would certainly take an extended amount of time.
Then you'd have to worry about Balance...
...and costs to upgrade...
...and repairs in Ducats...
TeddyWuggles

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by TeddyWuggles »

Lyrrad wrote:That's to say if a low-level player could get the Ducats needed to buy Highlander equipment. Not that it's hard or anything, but it would certainly take an extended amount of time.
Then you'd have to worry about Balance...
...and costs to upgrade...
...and repairs in Ducats...
It's going to take just as long for high level players to earn the ducats because everyone starts out with a fixed amount.
TeddyWuggles

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by TeddyWuggles »

Soluna wrote:Personally, I too, think the Demon Weapons have weird positioning in the choices of weaponry while the Fomor Weapons (Referring to the Venom Sword etc...) are certain on the high end of the list of weaponry being useful for most players.

Demon weapons at its best are high-end smith-ed weapons that cannot be upgraded through S/R, and it certainly will never be as powerful as the R weapons no matter what. More or less it should be said that R upgrades itself is probably the main factor in a weapon's upgrade-ability now. That is not to throw out that Demon weapons will not have special Demon Upgrade Stone to upgrade them in a different way.

I don't believe there's anything wrong in making hard to obtain item easier to obtain. There's nothing wrong with everyone able to get a highlander long bow or claymore. These weapons are not coveted because they are rare, they are coveted because they are the best. No one cared about battle sword before, people used Broad Swords, Gladius etc... But when Artisan and S/R Upgrade came it suddenly became popular. It is the nature of a game that players will work toward the best item/skill, and there is no reason why making things easier will necessarily take the fun away. Chances are, when newer bow/sword/axe comes out that is stronger than the current ones they will become not coveted as well.

There's nothing wrong with newer players (they exist...I think...) being able to get demon weapons and have a semi-decent output damage, its what they are designed for; for player who can't compete in the horrendous market when starting out. That's not to say getting the demon weapons will be easier as pie.

There's nothing wrong in allowing everyone have a powerful weapon (points at Brionac), obtaining a highlander long bow now doesn't make it less of a highlander long bow compare to the ones obtained later. A bow is a bow, the only difference is the efforts in obtaining, and it is always easier because like life the game will progress and move on. Don't build on one's on achievements on others' failures. You should be glad people can have easier lives then the hell you went through, O Hell...
Yeah newer players exist, I see them and deal with them all the time, its a little sad when they argue that because they are right because they are TL 350. I'm just worried about these weapons because they give the new player a damage output that can hardly be combed over as "decent". Its like starting Super Mario with 5 fireflowers, and where's the fun in that? Yeah its great at first and you think "Wow this is so cool!" but it gets old after a while when you realize that you have nothing to fear because everything that pops up you know you can handle, and if you can't, you still have more chances.
But going through that hell is what made the water at the end all the sweeter. It's difficult to start out, yes, but all games are like that. I like mabi because it didn't give hand outs in the past. The only thing keeping me cool about the new demon weapons is that they actually have a limit that can be surpassed by the regular weapons. Brionac requires a lot of work and is obtained after completed one of the most dreaded generation story lines of all time.
I dunno, I just have this thing about the new players expecting everything to be handed to them, and then watch them ask for more when they're received more than older players ever dreamed of. (5k for holy water stacks? 100k for dragon robes?5mil for an event fran because "I can get it cheaper if I really wanted to"?)
TeddyWuggles

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by TeddyWuggles »

Yoorah wrote:I think it's only natural that the game constantly redefine the baseline for what a "godly" weapon should be. Otherwise, things will get stale. New players don't want to play for an entire year+ of old content to get to the latest stuff. This is the same reasoning why even the latest story quests can be completed by low level players, thanks to the variable difficulty system we have. This is also why I'm disappointed that devCat gave in to the silly rage from players who wanted Golem to be nerfed, but I digress.
They're not redefining godly at all with the implementation of these weapons. They actually have less potential than their regular counterparts, its just the idea of how easy it is to get them. A few days of trading and you've achieved something most players spent weeks or months trying to get. And the fact that in can be done from level 1 just salts the wound.
Achiel wrote:Mabinogi always had OP weapons due to Egos.
OP after spending months on the beach/at the river finding jewels.
Then should they decide in the middle of a dungeon "I'm hungry" you're "OP" weapon just got its stats cut in half, effectively making it weaker than that broken longsword you picked up two rooms back.
Achiel

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by Achiel »

TeddyWuggles wrote:OP after spending months on the beach/at the river finding jewels.
Then should they decide in the middle of a dungeon "I'm hungry" you're "OP" weapon just got its stats cut in half, effectively making it weaker than that broken longsword you picked up two rooms back.
Who goes to the river/beach to find jewels when you can buy them? There's ample supply off those shops and theater missions. There's really no reason to even sieve them yourselves. Money problem? I don't have one. Repairs? Not a problem either. The Ego Weapon will always be an OP weapon regardless of hunger. Hunger is a very minuscule problem that only the very financially-inept or they who have no idea how to make money have.
Armelle

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by Armelle »

Soluna wrote:I don't believe there's anything wrong in making hard to obtain item easier to obtain. There's nothing wrong with everyone able to get a highlander long bow or claymore. These weapons are not coveted because they are rare, they are coveted because they are the best.
this

and as for other players running around with it,it doesn't effect me or you really,it only effects them.

if you quite honestly think it effects you,i'm not sure where your priorities are,and honestly the word "OP" in mabinogi of all games is laughable.
a person could buy gacha,sell rare items and buy a normal "rare"/"Op" weapon(or even possible get said weapon from the gacha),how in all honesty is that any different?
not to mention all weapons start with a base,its the upgrades,enchants,and S/R that matter.
and what about being able to basically BUY the S/R stones with ducats,how is that ANY different?
are you implying just because you had to do something in X manner,no ones allowed to gain in it Y manner that happens to be slightly easier?
but anyway i threw my point out,i don't wanna start some opinion war so peace out.
TeddyWuggles

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by TeddyWuggles »

Achiel wrote:
TeddyWuggles wrote:OP after spending months on the beach/at the river finding jewels.
Then should they decide in the middle of a dungeon "I'm hungry" you're "OP" weapon just got its stats cut in half, effectively making it weaker than that broken longsword you picked up two rooms back.
Who goes to the river/beach to find jewels when you can buy them? There's ample supply off those shops and theater missions. There's really no reason to even sieve them yourselves. Money problem? I don't have one. Repairs? Not a problem either. The Ego Weapon will always be an OP weapon regardless of hunger. Hunger is a very minuscule problem that only the very financially-inept or they who have no idea how to make money have.
What I'm trying to point out is that Ego weapons have their balances and are also out damaged by several of their upgraded counterparts. Whether or not yours is the max damage you've ever hit, I've seen some crazy regular weapons.
TeddyWuggles

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by TeddyWuggles »

And so I quit this forum seeing as I joined a while ago because I thought it looked interesting and instead of contributing I have simply made an enemy of most people here due to my general dislike for new players and their poor attitudes.
Armelle wrote:if you quite honestly think it effects you,i'm not sure where your priorities are,and honestly the word "OP" in mabinogi of all games is laughable.
a person could buy gacha,sell rare items and buy a normal "rare"/"Op" weapon(or even possible get said weapon from the gacha),how in all honesty is that any different?
not to mention all weapons start with a base,its the upgrades,enchants,and S/R that matter.
and what about being able to basically BUY the S/R stones with ducats,how is that ANY different?
are you implying just because you had to do something in X manner,no ones allowed to gain in it Y manner that happens to be slightly easier?
but anyway i threw my point out,i don't wanna start some opinion war so peace out.
I'm not saying that its wrong to be able to get it easier or in a different way, it just bothers me that in can be obtained at the start of the game. I'm fine with people using NX as a crutch to make money because its common in a few games I've played to have weapons (some exclusively) obtainable through cash, and honestly if anyone wants to dump money into a game, more power to them because they're keeping the game itself free for me and allowing me to buy the things I want. Buying S/R stones is a bit disappointing but its workable they're not a 100% to get to the higher levels, and work like a sort of tax to take gold out of the system.
When I use the term OP, I mean OP for a low level player.
Achiel

Re: [G15S1+S2] Fomor/Demon Weapons

Post by Achiel »

You haven't made enemies, at least not of me. New players will always have poor as hell attitudes. That just cannot be helped until they grow up.
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